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Project panama

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Project panama
« on: January 06, 2019, 21:35:27 »
Hello,

I just saw some "news" around project panama: a way better solution to use native code, more easily and more efficiently, perfect for LWJGL I guess.

They released a beta 0 on the main website : https://jdk.java.net/panama/

A youtube presentation: https://youtu.be/M-FPNBFAoSo
This video give some information about the use: annotations to describe the header, no need to modify the native library, some tool to generate the binding. He says that the firsts parts of this project could come soon into the JDK (mainly around the off-heap usage).

I guess it will simplify a lot LWJGL.

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Offline spasi

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Re: Project panama
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2019, 23:42:55 »
Yes, it will. I'm reviewing every commit that goes into Project Panama, a lot of progress has been made but it's still not there yet.

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Offline KaiHH

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Re: Project panama
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2019, 15:13:56 »
Here are more recent pre-built binaries: https://builds.shipilev.net/openjdk-panama/

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Offline tlf30

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Re: Project panama
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2020, 15:24:23 »
@Spasi, I was just checking up on the Panama project. It looks like they have made a lot of progress, but trying to find a roadmap for them is like pulling teeth.
Have you heard of any timeline for them? What are your thoughts on their progress?

Thanks,
Trevor

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Offline spasi

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Re: Project panama
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2020, 16:29:09 »
I'm still following Panama's progress, but I will not start testing until it stabilizes. There are still too many API changes happening and the promised performance isn't there.

The latest bad news is that they're trying to shoehorn safety features into the memory access API. Which is hopeless without a) sacrificing performance or b) copying something like Rust (impossible). Not saying it's not a noble effort, but it will take more and more time to sort it all out. I would have preferred just being able to write C in Java (same semantics, same unsafety, same performance), then letting libraries like LWJGL handle and hide the nasty stuff.

On the performance front, there are still too many open issues with Hotspot that affect Panama performance, who knows when and if they'll be fixed.

And, as always, we're still waiting for Valhalla, which imho is a prerequisite for Panama to turn out nice. The good news is that I personally trust the engineers involved and they'll eventually figure out the best approach for both projects. However, the design and implementation issues are extremely hard and the process necessarily time-consuming.

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Offline tlf30

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Re: Project panama
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2020, 16:39:18 »
Thank you for the update!
I see that JDK14 is finally out... (for better or worse) I need to start looking into what they broke this time around. It looks like improvements have been made to gc though.

I guess we will not see the Panama project for a while then. Which is unfortunate, it would be great to get C++ support in LWJGL.

Anyways, thanks again for the update, you are much more in the loop on the project status than anyone else I have talked to.

~Trevor