Any freeware OS recomendations for lwjgl?

[chriddel]

Hi,

we are going to program a slot machine that will actually be put into some bars. we probably code everything in java with some c++ to comunicate with the devices (for the coins, lights, ...) and we'll take LWJGL to create some nice 3d light and texture effects.
Unfortunately we cant (and wont like to) use Windows because we would have to pay for a license each time we sell the slot machine. So we thought of linux but we only find these >600MB instalations and we probably need something really small (because we may not use a harddisk and will put everything in flash-discs).

Anybody have suggestions for a freeware or cheap operating system that executes java (and lwjgl) and supports x86?

thanks a lot,

chris

[princec]

Plain old Linux will be perfect. You can really shrink it down super small if you know what you're doing.

I talked to a slot machine vendor for pubs a while back about doing some games for them. They had an interesting concept of downloading new games directly over broadband which was a nice idea. Unfortunately the user interface was... a touchscreen. Which rules out a whole load of great games

Care to spill the beans on who it is? We'd love to help. A JNI API for their coin hoppers etc. could easily be generic.

Cas

[chriddel]

well, i can't tell you the name of the company because they wouldn't like anybody to know that they are making a slot "videogame" machine.

here in spain it is still forbidden to publish slot machines that don't use mechanic rolls. everybody expects that law changes soon but until then companies keep everything quite secret. (we already had problems like that with another company and they even send us their advocate just because we published their name in a web page...    strange people...)

tomorrow we will meet with the guys from the company and hope to convince them about our technical concept (pc-like hardware, linux, java, opengl).

we already created an online casino in flash (that was pretty straight forward - especially working with the designers) but for this project i prefer java because i dont think flash is any good in comunicating with the hardware/drivers, coins, lights, etc.

thanx for the tip using "plain old linux". what distribution would you advise?

if you are interested in this project i will keep you informed - and of course we would apreciate any help (the java-part isnt worrying me - but i havent really touched linux so far...  :roll:  i hope it wont be too bad  :lol:  )

thanx,

chris

[Javapunk]

I would advise Debian. Rock solid stability.

[chriddel]

i found debian.org

what version should i install?  :?

thanx,

chris

[Javapunk]

Debian stable. Some of the packages are pretty old. But for a casio machine you don't want any problems. I think debian can be a little hard to install though

[chriddel]

ok. had the meeting today. everything was pretty smooth. they liked the technical details and everything. on monday we are going to present the contract.  

we are not really sure what price to put in the contract.
maybe someone here knows...

we are going to program all the software part of the slot machine.
this includes:
- the normal game (3 wheels) in 3d
- bonus game (that we still dont know ...   )
- win calculations
- security issues
- communication with serial or parallel port for coin hopper, buttons, ...
- designing all the graphics
- creating all the sounds/music

we thought 5000 â,¬ would be a fair price but we are not really sure because they had an offer from another company and they wanted ten times more  :shock:

maybe someone has an idea for what price we should ask.

btw: if everything works out fine we might need another programmer - they asked us already about creating more games in the future  

[elias]

I'd say 5000£ is far too little (esp. considering the competion's price). I don't know if you've done so, but if you sit down and figure out how much development time you'll need to develop the system, you'd get a much better estimate (and probably > 5000£). Be sure to put in a lot of time for problems, now that you haven't got much experience with linux and the interaction with the hardware.

- elias

[princec]

For the system you have described I would not quote less than £50,000; and if it's fixed price with no time & materials clause then I'd double that. The specification is a crucial aspect of the deliverable as well. I suggest you really get someone who is very clued up about software development contracts to work something out with you or you'll be raped and fail miserably.

<edit>...and don't forget if you quote outrageously low compared to the competition you will be politely told to go away and not come back, as it will be very clear that you are hopelessly inexperienced and unrealistic!

Cas

[chriddel]

first of all a big THANK YOU for taking so much time in reading and answering all these questions in this forum. i really apreciate that there are guys who like to share their experience and knowledge with others.  

we were thinking about your considerations and I think we can't go near 50,000 â,¬ because thats exactly why they refused the competers offer without a thought.

consider that here in spain wages are a lot lower than in the uk and the prices as well - if you've spend here your holidays you'll know what I mean...

the average salery here is 800 â,¬ / month  :cry: but hey, we have good weather here  :wink:

we were already programming this flash online casino we did once and we got 3,000 â,¬ for every casino game.

we were calculating that we probably wont need more than 2 months working 2 people (maybe a little more) so i think we'll offer them 8,000 â,¬ + 5 â,¬ for every slot machine sold.

i think we can't go a lot further because we already talked about prices before and I notice that they won't/can't invest a lot more. this first game will be something like the proof of our ability and they probably pay us more the second game.

i hope i can post some more questions & reports the future...  :roll:

thanks a lot guys!

chris

[princec]

Hey, the average salary might be 800 euros but consider this:

1. Programmers are not average people. You are likely in the top 5% intellect in the world. They can't recruit monkeys to do the job; you're rare and valuable. And this means you should not be on an average salary. You only have to hop over to the UK and the "average" programmer is making 3500 euros a month.

2. You are not salaried employees; you are a business executing a contract. Not only does this mean you are assuming a huge deal more risk compared to a salaried employee, it also means you have a business to run, which means profits and reinvestment and growth.

3. A software project is guaranteed to take twice as long as you estimate, and that's before the client decides to make all sorts of unscheduled changes.

Factor 1, 2, and 3 together: your programmers are way above average people, and they're worth 1500 euros a month. You reckon it'll take two programmers two months, so thats 6000 euros. I reckon it'll take you twice as long, so thats 12,000 euros. Then you have to factor your risk and business growth and profit in, so you want to double that at least to 24,000 euros. Then you want to consider that the client might just dick you around and cause you immense grief. So let's add 50% again to cover them extending the scope of the requirements unexpectedly and cover your risks of having to turn down something else because they overextended the project. 36,000 euros.

And that's just based on the hopelessly inadequate salaries of 1500 euros a month. The reality is anywhere else in Europe and it'd be 3000 euros a month and a 70k contract. Don't let them shaft you. If you're not going to become well off and grow the business you might as well sell beer behind a bar in Barcelona!

...but seeing as this is your first contract you could consider it a loss-leader and do it at 50% of your normal rate. Just make sure that they understand it's at half rate this time round.

Cas

[fbi]

Hey Cas,
how much is an average salary over there?  :shock:
I was really thinking about coming to the UK someday with my girlfriend (we're both computer scientists)  
I could say that here in Italy the average salary is something like 900 â,¬ (and the worst fact is that we are treated so bad...they consider us common workers).
That's a bitch in "latin" countries...  :x

[princec]

Your typical programmer's salary is between £25-35k per annum. Depending on your particular skillset and experience it might be twice that. At one point I was earning £136k a year but that was the glory days of the dotcom bubble

<edit> Expect to be treated like shit by any employer, in any job. That's what employment is all about.

Cas

[fbi]

Oh well...the problem is not about treatment...I know that.
Can you imagine how funny is it to be a PhD student in an italian university?  
That's a nightmare, even if we've got a lot of nice things here  
The main point is that even if we can be treated bad, we need to be paid in the right way (and this doesn't happen here because computer scientist are not kept in the right consideration).

[princec]

You're worth whatever you're willing to work for. Plain and simple :twisted:

Cas