A LWJGL Wiki has been setup (now use it, coz it was a bitch to setup!) - I just put it online so no content yet.
Everybody has read access, but you need to register to get write access. I'm a bit in doubt as to whether we need special editors instead of write access to all registered users...
Middy already create a smallish intro page, and we need a lot more if the wiki is to be a success. This also means that we need to establish somekind of structure...
Please comment, especially if you have prior knowledge of wiki's and how to successfully manage them.
LWJGL Wiki: http://wiki.lwjgl.org/
Well wiki CAN be a powerfull tool. But it can also be a piece of crap.
I have tried the commetie approach, or rather "what does everybody like approach". This always result in either of two things
1. Nothing get done
2. Something get done and then people start arguing and then goto 1.
What I was thinking was something alike the PHP.net site. If you have seen it, its a firmly established manual with user comments. The usercomments are the best part of the manuel. But only makes sense with the manual.
Anyway two persons sit down and create a structure. They get to decide no questions asked. The rest of the volunteers is assigned the different chapters. Filling them out.
Why this approach?. Well everyone who has written a document knows that if you do not provide the correct structure the content is almost irrelevant in the sense that a reader cannot tell head from tail. The wiki system allows alot of authors with alot of different styles. If the docs are to survive all the inputs, there must be a good and logical structure so even the dummest authors get it.
PS. remind me to go to Odense and beat you up Matzon.. I spend half the day setting my own WIKI up as I offered in the other thread. :evil:
Quote from: "middy"PS. remind me to go to Odense and beat you up Matzon.. I spend half the day setting my own WIKI up as I offered in the other thread. :evil:
oops - I only read the 'Anyway I would be happy to setup such a wiki,...' part - not the last comment by Cas - sorry bout that :)
I'll comment more on the whole wiki process later tonight, when I get off from work
Woops!
Anyway, I registered on the wiki.lwjgl.org wiki under my usual dull handle. Now I have to figure out how to use the damned thing.
Cas :)
Do you guys have an auto-responder on the wiki registration? or is it manual? I registered a little while ago and still have not received an e-mail.
uhm... I ticked 'Validate users by email:' and 'Remind passwords by email:' - but I think it's manual...
It's the first wiki I've ever set up, and I am still figuring it out :) - I hope to have someone else than me with greater wiki experience take over the admin position, eventually.
but your are registered as CaptainJester according to the wiki
I got my mail through (said it came from "nobody").
Cas :)
I still cannot log in WiKi and have not received a confirmation e-mail since I registered.
Your spam filter's probably decided the mail is junk.
Cas :)
Login: CaptainJester
Email: captainjester@hotmail.com
right?
You are in the DB - if you have lost your pwd, I can nuke your account, and you can recreate it.
Go ahead an nuke the account and I'll try again.
Thanks.
princec:
I don't run a spam filter. I only block e-mails from addresses that have sent me junk. So your mailer would not have been sent to the junk folder. I checked just to make sure and it was not there.
Thanks.
Quote from: "CaptainJester"Go ahead an nuke the account and I'll try again.
It has been done!
If you ever need php help I'm pretty good with PHP. Especially if you have MySQL enabled on your server. But it looks good :D
dennmat@yahoo.ca
Is it just me or is the wiki really slow when loading? It seems to take forever to load new pages which makes it really annoying to browse and to contribute to...
Quote from: "garazdawi"Is it just me or is the wiki really slow when loading? It seems to take forever to load new pages which makes it really annoying to browse and to contribute to...
You're right, this wiki is really slow and so damn ugly...
Well, the slowness we can't do anything about right now - it's because its hosted on SourceForge and uses a lot of db connections.
As for being ugly, this is one of the "better" looking wikis! - perhaps your using a wrong stylesheet? - change it in Preferences, default should be moreneat.css
I thought that something like that might be the reason for how slow it is... as for the layout I actually like it alot. It's plain and simple to use and navigate IMO if it just hadn't been so damn slow :o
Anyways I have just submitted a small guide of how to build lwjgl from its sources and I would actually be prepared to spend quite some time to document LWJGL. I'm actually kinda weird in that sence because I really like to document features and such. It helps me to understand the features that are involved in an API.
uh uh - stay with us !! - people that love to document is a rare find :D
I think that within a short time span, we're going to talk about whether or not to use the wiki or replace it - and also if we should free us from the shackles of SF
I'd like to move off SF, if not for the speed issues, then for replacing the old CVS crud with subversion.
- elias
I have many reasons for not using SF - but in the end we still have to find a place to host it...
Moving away from SF sounds like a really good idea, especially if you are going to continue using the wiki. If you are not going to continue using the wiki then I suggest that you go for something similar to the php manual. Where users can contribute if they which by only giving a small comment on the feature in question. It should not be all that hard to setup such a system using php. Maybe the php manual is opensource? in which case a modification of it would be a really nice thing...
Quote from: "Matzon"I have many reasons for not using SF - but in the end we still have to find a place to host it...
Yae, that's always the problem. Maybe you should check out something like SpyMac (http://www.spymac.com) to help you with hosting. It will cost you a couple of dollars a year though if you want to have a nice DNS and bandwidth, as with all other webhosting services...
This one is dead simple, no silly features. Just wiki
http://www.pmwiki.com/
Quote from: "middy"This one is dead simple, no silly features. Just wiki
http://www.pmwiki.com/
You don't have to sign up with that one... I don't know if that is good or bad, but I consider it to be bad. Signing up eliminates the causal bypasser from screwing upp the wiki completely at just a whim.
But weirdly enough, the pmwiki.com is a pmwiki and noone messes it up.
Yae I noticed that, sometimes the opensource community just surprises you. I still think going for an approach more like the phpManual would work better, but that means getting some people to do most of the manual by them selves and then when done with that let the masses do their thing...
Hehe, I felt inspired and made a small example of what I mean by the "phpManual", this took me about 15 min to make and I suck at web devlopment.
Edit: forgot the link :o
LWJGLDoc Test (http://garazdawi.homeftp.net/LWJGLDoc/index.php)
why not simply use java.net wiki ?
Quote from: "vrm"why not simply use java.net wiki ?
Do you have a link?
LWJGL doesn't have any presence at Java.net, and last I heard they wanted to remain independent. I wonder if an "unofficial" attempt at wikifying a pile of documentation could be made under the Games wiki?
As for public wikis being defaced, yes. But that's why you have a team of interested people who will undo any damage. The Wikipedia is the highest-profile Wiki out there, and it suffers from defacement - but someone is usually along shortly to clean it all up again.
Yae that's true...hmm.. so far all the wiki's I've seen do not have the controls and shoutbox to the left. I'm undecided whether this is a good thing or not.
EDIT: I'm on fire! Just added abit to the wiki documenting how input works :), i'm starting with the simple stuff just to get in the feeling of how it's done ^^
Hey people, take a look at the structure of the Input documentiation of LWJGL. I've been playing around with it for a bit and I kinda like the result. I'm not 100% sure if I should put all the Input classes on the same page or on different ones., but as it is at the moment I think a split would be nice escpecially when we later get into the opengl and there are alot of more classes in the same package.
Also does anyone have any requests of which parts should be documeneted first? I was thinking to document the display class after I get boored with input, but I'm not really sure if that's the best move to make....
I think it's a great start on the input docs. I can't edit because I can't register, so here's a few comments:
poll(), create() and destroy() are not really essential as they're called automatically. So move them into "advanced" or "if you need to know" and state that create()/destroy() are called automatically on Display.create()/destroy() and that poll() is called automatically on Display.update(). Only getDX()/getDY() and isButtonDown() are essential. After that comes events (also enabled automatically) that enables you to track button events if you're not content with isButtonDown().
- elias
Quote from: "elias"I think it's a great start on the input docs. I can't edit because I can't register, so here's a few comments:
poll(), create() and destroy() are not really essential as they're called automatically. So move them into "advanced" or "if you need to know" and state that create()/destroy() are called automatically on Display.create()/destroy() and that poll() is called automatically on Display.update(). Only getDX()/getDY() and isButtonDown() are essential. After that comes events (also enabled automatically) that enables you to track button events if you're not content with isButtonDown().
- elias
I didn't know that poll/create/delete were automatically called. Nice :D I'll go and edit that at once, and I'm gonna split all the classes into seperate pages as well... so that I don't have to do any major reconstructing later on....
Ok, I've now moved out all the stuff about the Mouse and created a seperate page for it. It turned out really nice so I think we should stick with a similar setup throughout the documentation. Now I'm gonna go and get some lunch and do some laundry (horrid thought).
I was playing around with Mouse.isButtonDown and realised that LWJGL did not recognize inputs from all the buttons on my mouse. I have an IntelliMouse Explorer with 2 button+whell on top and 2 on the side. LWJGL only recognized one of the side buttons but not the other. Is this a native problem or something that LWJGL does?
LWJGL recognizes the first 4 buttons of a mouse. The reason for this has to do with dx 5 only supporting 4 buttons (Windows NT, yes some still uses it) - to support more buttons, we would need to use dx7+ instead
Ahh, ok. Now I get it. Thx for clearing that up.
Mouse and Cursor have now been fully documented. I will proebly now move on to Keyboard and then someone else will have to do Controller as I don't have one to test functions with. Does anyone have any requests of what they want to be documented first, if not I'll just pick up at any odd place...
Thank you! Don't worry about Controller, it's in a state of uncertainty right now ;) Take Display/DisplayMode/PixelFormat instead.
- elias
I'll take a look at them, right now I'm playing around with trying to create a native cursor from a png image but it aint working :x
OK, a MAJOR change of the Documentation index and also quite a large change to the front page. Hope I got the layout right this time :o
This is looking nice!
Think we need to get more people to add content (fill out the blanks).
I was a bit in doubt about the wiki, but the manual stuff is looking very promising - it will become a very valuable source of info!
Quote from: "Matzon"This is looking nice!
Think we need to get more people to add content (fill out the blanks).
Yae... It took me the good part of the afternoon today to do the new layout of the manual, and as things are only going to get harder it's going to take more and more time to update the info and add content.
Quote from: "Matzon"I was a bit in doubt about the wiki, but the manual stuff is looking very promising - it will become a very valuable source of info!
Indeed, and if you really want to inderstand a concept there is no better way than to document it and when different users can put their own experiences down it will become much easier for new LWJGL users to choose to use it.