The initial Max OS X port was made by Elias on a Mac we borrowed.
With the limited time in hand Elias successfully created a Mac port
(although somewhat crippled). As some of you may know, we have since
then tried many times to get Mac developers to join the team. So far
we have met with limited success. In order to fix the LWJGL Mac port we need
to have a dedicated developer with a Mac willing to offer a lot of spare time.
To that end Elias (or actually the - soon to be - company Oddlabs (http://oddlabs.com/) that is currently working
on Tribal Trouble) has expressed a willingness to purchase a Mac and commit
to finally getting Mac OS X properly supported. As Elias has already proved
his skills, we see this as a very good solution.
However, as many of you know Mac hardware is rather pricey - which is why we
have decided to donate what is in the LWJGL donation fund (It was originally setup
to allow us to do whatever needed to get a Mac port going). We hope to increase
the fund to $1000 USD as fast as possible.
The fund currently holds $90.89 USD. Caspian Rychlik-Prince will
donate $400 (!) to the cause which means we're already halfway! The sooner we reach
the $1000 mark, the sooner the Mac port can be finished!
This is your chance to help out with the LWJGL library! So dig deep ;)
Should we increase this fund to more than $1000 the remaining money will be
kept in the fund, and used to help with creating new features (ie.
purchasing a controller to do the Force Feedback implementation), hosting on a
proper server or other LWJGL causes.
To donate to the LWJGL fund, follow this link:
http://sourceforge.net/donate/index.php?group_id=58488 (Paypal donation).
Note: 10% of all proceeds will go to EFF.
Should you wish to donate directly, without any proceeds going to EFF, you can
do so by sending money to the: brian@matzon.dk paypal account.
so how far/close are we from the goal?
I noticed some folks are giving wopping amount of money to you guys! :D
(I did my share, albeit small, heh I have a new house to pay :cry:)
Quote from: "Morgrog"(I did my share, albeit small, heh I have a new house to pay :cry:)
He, All donations are graciously accepted!
Quote from: "Morgrog"so how far/close are we from the goal?
Currently we have received about $200 since the start of the donation which brings us close to the $300 mark. However it would seem that some of the messages about sending money still has to be processed, so I expect more is on the way. We hope that by the 1st when people have gotten a paycheck we'll get a huge influx of cash :twisted: - I know I'm waiting for my paycheck before donating.
Ideally we'll collect a bit more than $1000 so that we have some small reserves for whatever we think of for the LWJGL community.
What are you guys looking at picking up? Specs/model.. I imagine for $1000, you're not looking at a dual G5 machine. Of course, you can pick up a nice G4 iBook that would probably do the trick for about $950 refurbed from the US Store.
I imagine that oddlabs WILL pick up a dual G5 of some sort, but thats by adding their own money (they start at 2k :shock:).
Just added a little more change to the cookie jar...
-Michael
Excellent! I'll do a status update tomorrow :)
info to all: My mail is unf*cking believably slow these days - so if you're trying to contact me via email expect at least 12-18 hours delay (!)
Small update:
So far we have collected: $338.63 USD
However, this amount is missing a $100 submission by ap_kelly (from JGO), and a $100 from gavia (SF has sent me an email, have yet to see the money on the paypal account :?:)
With that money we will be over the $500 mark!
But we still have a way to go - but I suspect we will get a lot close when we get to the 1st of August, with all those fat paychecks dropping in :)
I'll update again later
ohh - and if you've sent any mails the last 2 days to me, please resend since I am suspecious about my provider loosing some of them...
Sorry for the inconvenience
Whats status on this?
That SF is officially a f*cktard company :evil:
I am waiting for some support requests to come through, taking ages! - then I'll update... We're not there yet - but it's looking good!
Quote from: "Matzon"That SF is officially a f*cktard company :evil:
I am waiting for some support requests to come through, taking ages! - then I'll update... We're not there yet - but it's looking good!
there donation system is genious everybody is falling on the trick and donate to them ;)
Is there anything I can do as a iBook owner to help (aside from donating my Mac)? I'm hoping that it actually 'does' hardware OpenGL - never tried it.
I've no Mac programming experience, but a heck of a lot of Windows programming experience.
Heh.. I donated through sf and sent a seperate donation (albeit small :( ) via paypal directly to matzon.
Quote from: "PeterM"Is there anything I can do as a iBook owner to help (aside from donating my Mac)? I'm hoping that it actually 'does' hardware OpenGL - never tried it.
Well, we've had one more offer of help with the mac port, however that person was a bit limited in time, and could only do the ogl stuff - so as it looks now, the best bet is still letting elias do the whole port so that we can be sure we have a fast, maintainable and stable port. He did the initial port, and should be able to crank out a proper port "fast".
Mac testers are of course especially welcome :)
Cas :)
hm... not sure if you're talking about me, as i did not receive any answer to my emails...
anyway. i have it running fullscreen and in a window. my problem right now is that i do not receive any events - can't even close the window or CMD-Q the app (so fullscreen kills you machine, 'cause you cant quit :). i am not sure if i should try to get a full blown NSApplication running on the obj-c side to do the event-handling, or if i just try to do it the coregraphics way... the jogl implementation has the awt-binding and therefore a complete app-setup (because thats what drives the awt under mac os x).
and if you guys would give me some assistence i might be even handle the rest of the mac-side. how did you do that in the first version? i did not dig deep into Keyboard.cpp and Mouse.cpp.
i won't post my code here. too much for a board. and i had to change some small pieces of the non-mac code. finally i use objc, not cpp. that just not the way to go on a mac :)
Status update!
The donation pot currently holds
QuoteU.S. Dollar: $815.00 USD
We might have a donation more on the way - will have to check with that...
The above number is
without Cas's donation - this means we are above the $1000 mark, and working together with Elias we will start to get things rolling.
Though we have reached the target, we will be keeping the donation open, since we're talking about getting hosted somewhere else than sourceforge.
Quote from: "atze"hm... not sure if you're talking about me, as i did not receive any answer to my emails...
Hmm, still no answer? One of the things I didn't like about your email, was that you said you didn't have much time to do this kind of work, which put us a bit off (none of us can maintain obj-c code...)
Quote from: "atze"
anyway. i have it running fullscreen and in a window. my problem right now is that i do not receive any events - can't even close the window or CMD-Q the app (so fullscreen kills you machine, 'cause you cant quit :). i am not sure if i should try to get a full blown NSApplication running on the obj-c side to do the event-handling, or if i just try to do it the coregraphics way... the jogl implementation has the awt-binding and therefore a complete app-setup (because thats what drives the awt under mac os x).
Yes, you need an app-setup alse events are discarded (at least it seems so). Also running Java Web Start craps on the input handling on Mac.
Quote from: "atze"
and if you guys would give me some assistence i might be even handle the rest of the mac-side. how did you do that in the first version? i did not dig deep into Keyboard.cpp and Mouse.cpp.
I'll let Elias answer this one :) - No idea.
Quote from: "atze"
i won't post my code here. too much for a board. and i had to change some small pieces of the non-mac code. finally i use objc, not cpp. that just not the way to go on a mac :)
Depending on how far along you are (and if you're going in the right direction...) the code could be very valuable - you might want to gra a hold of elias directly
I'd really like to use the java Cocoa binding if at all possible instead of obj-c native code. The non-event issue is very much like the current LWJGL for mac.
You can upload the current source to somewhere public and I'll work from that when I buy the mac.
- elias
Quote from: "elias"I'd really like to use the java Cocoa binding if at all possible instead of obj-c native code.
I recommend against the Java Cocoa bindings. I don't think that Java Cocoa bindings are suitable for gaming applications. Many on the java-dev list that Apple runs would say it isn't even suitable for most Cocoa applications.
If you are going with Cocoa, which is the right thing to do, then obj-c is the best way to do it. And it is not difficult to adapt to the obj-c syntax for the little bits that will be needed.
What's the status of the OS X machine acquisition, btw?
Current status is that I am transferring paypal money (that is most of it (900$) - rest later, due to 750â,¬ limit) to my bank account - (5-7 days) when I get it, I'll transfer it to elias's bank account and they'll start the purchase. I will then transfer the remaining 100 later (within 1 month it would seem) to elias.
I'll do an announcement once elias has gotten the first batch, and officially declare the donation event a success :)
The actual donation was a success!
Transferring the money from paypal to my account however has gotten messy :/
I entered the bank account information (and verified it several times). I then proceded to transfer the first 900$ - 6 days later the money transfer was rejected. Paypal stating:
QuoteAn electronic funds transfer from your PayPal account to your bank account
was rejected today for this reason:
Invalid Bank Account Information
Since I am 110% certain that the information I entered is correct I send several mails to paypal, asking what specifically is wrong. Unfortunately they just send back a standard email pertaining to wrong bank information - they don't actually answer any of my questions!
My bank wasn't exactly helpfull. My bank department said that they didn't have any experience with paypal, and didn't know what exactly should be wrong. They also wondered why they didn't use SWIFT or IBAN numbers.
I will be sending a mail to paypal about the possibility of using SWIFT or IBAN instead to transfer the money. I will also be contacting my bank again, for *anyone* actually capable of helping me with paypal (OT, it frightens me that my banks "foreign department" didn't know what paypal is!).
Transaction details
QuoteCurrency Conversion (debit) From U.S. Dollar To Danish Krone: -$900.00 USD
Currency Conversion (credit) To Danish Krone From U.S. Dollar: 5,296.19 DKK
Transfer From Cancelled Transfer: -42.00 DKK
Currency Conversion (debit) From Danish Krone To U.S. Dollar: 5,249.19
Currency Conversion (credit) To U.S. Dollar From Danish Krone: $831.42 USD
As a result of the above mixup, the donation pot took a small hit due to currency conversion and a small (!) fee for failed transaction:
QuoteFee: approx: 6.8
conversion loss: 900 - 6.8 - 831.42: 61,78 (!!)
I know that the dollar has decreased in value over the last period of time, but a loss of almost $62 seems to me like paypal has a ridiculous currency conversion rate.
This leaves a total pot of: $979.06 (actually only 929.06, since I will send my $50 donation directly to elias).
Since we're $20 short of our goal, it's time to do a donation if you haven't already done so ;)
Should I fail to get any meaning full out of paypal and my bank, I will have to transfer the money to someone else that actually know they can get the money out of paypal AND transfer them on to elias. Cas is somewhat out of the question since we'd loose money again from the conversion $ -> £ -> DKR. I am actually thinking of Scott Palmer atm. but I don't know if he's American or Canadian (no insults intended :wink:)
Stay tuned for more info.
Hmm currency conversion:
http://www.valutakurser.dk/Currency/ShowGraph.aspx?ValutaID=29926&gdd=18&gmm=8&gyy=2004
August 18th:
rate: 6,01: $900 -> DKR 5409
August 24th:
rate 6,15: 5367 (fee deducted) -> $872,68
This means that we should be set back by $27,32 instead of more than double the amount! Thanks paypal...
I am beginning to think that paypal actively wants to make people fail so that they earn more money?
Their Expanded Use Enrollment scheme is also very poorly setup, in that they use some sort of weird way to do it, so I have to contact my bank to get the information.
Well, either that or they just don't know how to deal with non-americans. *sigh*
Paypal has a very shi(f/t)ty reputation... things like locking people's accounts etc. I'm unfortunately not surprised you're having troubles. I hoped that ebay would force them to clean up their act.
On the other hand I donated and I suspect my money went to sourceforge:(
Bill
Paypal are scum. Thousands of pages of consumer protection and anti-fraud legislation governing money, credit, transfer, etc. neatly bypassed by one little bit of technology.
Cas :)
The previous game I worked was shrewed by PayPal too.. we are using swereg a swedish based company. They always work and dont shrew you over. They also accept all cards and even brown paper bags.
I'm happy to help as a tester.
I'm also willing to chip in to the pot if it's still open, should I still do it through PayPal?
I have transferred money to a German using PayPal before with no troubles - but I certainly am not very trusting of PayPal, it can be a bit of a rip off as you are finding out.
When LWJGL is fully up and running on OS X, I am going to push to have it recognised as an official Xith3D renderer (currently it's not official, although we have been supporting it when upgrading other components).
Will.
Quote from: "willdenniss"I'm also willing to chip in to the pot if it's still open, should I still do it through PayPal?
wow, that post was just on time: http://puppygames.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5155
Since you're a "high profile" name, you could be one of our options if we cannot find an american. If we choose you to transfer the money, you could just donate the currency loss (probably in the 10-20$ ranges) when transferring. So don't donate just yet.
I'm happy to help out if you like, but how is the person who gets the money going to get it to who its going to? I've always used PayPal for stuff like that (the one time I have done it) :? International cheques are a pain, and many money transfers like Western Union are more expensive than PayPal.
Also, I've never got money out of PayPal on my end, although I assume it would work and I don't mind trying. But I'm in Australia, so we'll get the double currency conversion problem again too.
How do you plan on getting the money from the donation PayPal account to the person who will withdraw it? Won't that incur a 3% charge? If you just give them your password, won't they have to be in the same country (i.e. same problems).
What a mess! But, if you think I can help, I'm more than happy too.
Will.
I can send Elias the money to his paypal account - but he can't withdraw any money to his bank account (same error as me).
So we need someone that CAN transfer money to own bank account.
The money will be send from the donation paypal account to the recipients paypal account, which is free.
A slight problem - my account is a premium account (so that I can accept credit cards) but even PayPal transfers incure a 3% fee I think.
Hopefully someone in a better position will step forward and they can do it. Otherwise I can try setting up a second non-premium account and giving it a dry run. Let me know if you need my help.
Cheers,
Will.
I assume you've been through all this then: http://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_help-ext&eloc=0&loc=911&source_page=&flow=
You can't do this:
http://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_help-ext&eloc=673
to get it to someone's bank account?
And calling them:
QuotePayPal Customer Service Agents are available to help you from 6:00 AM BST until 10:00 PM BST every day.
Call us on: 08707 307 191 (UK national call rates apply)
We can only discuss an account with the account holder. Please have the following information available when you call:
* Your telephone number
* Your email address
* The last four digits of your credit card or bank account registered with PayPal
For security reasons, we must verify the above details before discussing any account-specific information.
Was useless?
Surely a company as large as PayPal doing all that business via eBay can handle this problem.
Quote from: "swpalmer"Surely a company as large as PayPal doing all that business via eBay can handle this problem.
http://www.paypalsucks.com/ 'nuff said
The biggest problem is that paypal really really really sucks when it comes to support. Basically if you have an issue all they say is:
you have an issue, guess what it is and fix it
Imagine submitting a form, and you get a reply: Sorry, information entered was not valid. You have been charged 10$. Please change to correct values and try again.
With absolutely no help as to WHAT is wrong. That really sucks.
Once this donation stuff is over, I will disable everything even remotely related to paypal. If we ever need to go through somekind of donation again, it will be through some other service with positively better reputation!
elias is working on something, which should go through - we will post a status update soon
Any updates? I've really been looking forward to getting this on OSX!
aye - see here:
http://puppygames.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=730
Awsome, must have missed that post. *waits anxiously*
Update: We finally got hold of a mac (dual g5 with 768 megs of ram and a geforce fx 5200) (hurrah!), after yet another few days of delivering problems. After another day or two waiting for enormous developer packs from the slow apple developer connection, it's ready. Stay tuned for status updates on the software part of the actual port :-)
- elias
Excellent news! Let me know if you need any help testing, or if you have a specific question about where to find something for the Mac.